Lec 15 | MIT 16.885J Aircraft Systems Engineering, Fall 2005
Articles Blog

Lec 15 | MIT 16.885J Aircraft Systems Engineering, Fall 2005

August 29, 2019


Professor Sheila Widnall. We are really lucky that she is able to come
and talk to us today. She has been here at MIT since 1964 as a professor
and then as provost, but she didn’t serve very long as provost because she was assigned
to go to Washington by the President to be the Secretary of the Air Force, which she
did for almost five years, I guess. Four years. Then came back here. And she is now an institute professor which
basically means you can do anything you want, right, including come and talk to our class. In particular, Professor Widnall was on the
Columbia Accident Investigation Board. And that specifically is what she’s going
to talk to us about today, along with just general comments about how this relates back
to systems engineering, the design, operation of the Shuttle, and basically anything else
that you would like to say because it is your time. So thanks for being with us, Sheila. OK. Well, thank you, Jeff. As I understand the schedule. It is two hours. And if I don’t finish, we still take a break. And then we come back and finish, is that
right? Generally, the way we’ve run the classes is
that we encourage students to ask questions while you’re talking. Absolutely. That will probably slow me down a little bit. Up to you. Anyway, two hours, we’ll just take it as it
comes. OK. Well, I am going to focus on the Columbia
Accident Investigation. I must say, and I’m sure I will say many times
as I go through it, that it was an incredible experience to be a member of that board. 02:00 I get chills up my back when I see that. The reason I show this is for two reasons. First of all, I mean it was, in fact, an incredible
event. I am sure that all of you can remember where
you were that morning when that happened. I also show it because of the expression on
the face of the principal mission controller, Leroy Cain, when he realized that the Shuttle
was lost. And if the Shuttle doesn’t make it to Cape
Kennedy, more or less on schedule, there is no engine at that point, you’ve got a problem. And so he was in a windowless box in Houston. And so he had no kind of external, although
all the citizens of Texas knew what had happened, the guys in the windowless box did not. So it was really an incredible emotional experience
for all of NASA as an agency. But then what happens after that? Well, fortunately the Challenger Commission
had anticipated the need for a method to call an accident board into being if there should
be another Shuttle accident. And so there were individuals who were more
or less ex-officio by rank or title waiting to be called. So, the fact of the matter is, that on Saturday,
when this all happened, the Accident Investigation Board was pretty much called into being at
that point. Now, who were the Accident Investigation Board
at that point? Well, they were primarily government employees. Not so much NASA employees. That clearly would have been unacceptable. But they were military. Three Air Force generals, the head of Air
Force Safety, a general from Space Command and a general from Material Command who had
actually served as an executive staff to the Challenger Commission. That would be General Barry. So, they had some very good experience. The board was chaired by Admiral Hal Gehman
who had been the Vice Chief of Naval Operations. He had also been the Chairman of the Cole
Investigation. I don’t remember how many of you remember
the Cole Investigation, but there was a big explosion. It is in the Middle East. I don’t remember. Where was it? Yemen. It was probably Yemen killing 19 people. And there were other government employees. Somebody from the National Transportation
Safety Board. Jim Hallock who is across the street here
at the Department of Transportation, the head of NASA Ames and the head of Navy Safety,
Admiral Turcotte. It was a smaller board than it ultimately
ended up being. 05:30 And I’m blanking on names because I
am at that sort of age, but we had a Nobel Prize physicist from Stanford. You have to have a Nobel Prize physicist on
a Shuttle investigation. Also, somebody who had been looking into issues
of policy and history with respect to the Shuttle Program. And I am not getting any of these names right
so I’m not even going to try. Pardon? The class has met John Logsdon. John Logsdon, right. Thank you, John Logsdon. Doug Osheroff was the Stanford physicist. He was kind of a kick because at the beginning
he was very media shy. He just wouldn’t talk to the media, but then
he really got into it and he went way outside the box, which was kind of interesting to
see how that all happened. In any case, we were all pulled together and
we were chartered to uncover the facts, as well as the actual or probable cause of the
Shuttle mishap and recommend preventative and other appropriate actions to preclude
the recurrence of a similar mishap. Yes? Professor Widnall, before you and Sally Ride
came on there were no females? That’s right, no women. [AUDIENCE QUESTION] I’m not sure. Maybe a little bit. But, actually, the day of the accident, of
course everybody was saying what happened? That’s not what I was saying. I was saying I wonder who is going to be on
the board. I actually had a strong sense that I, in fact,
would be on the board. Think about it. Gene Covert had been on the Challenger. I think, like you have to have Nobel Prize
physicist from Stanford, you have to have an aeronautical engineer from MIT. I think the other thing was, as Secretary
of the Air Force, I was really in charge of accident investigation. All accident investigations reported to me. Well, you guys don’t know a lot about accident
investigations in the military. But there are two accident investigations
in the military. One called a safety investigation, which is
privileged, and you take testimony and you seal it. And I will talk about that later because we
tried to replicate some of that on the Columbia investigation. You have that one and then you have the public
investigation which you take testimony, people can be court-martialed. There is an Accident Investigation procedure
that goes on in the Air Force, and I had really been in charge of that. In addition to be an aerodynamicist, which
is always good, I was the aerodynamicist on the commission, I was a faculty member at
MIT, I had been Secretary of the Air Force, I had been in charge of accidents. Also, I had spent my last five years really
being interested in space, safety and mission assurance in space. I mean all these things kind of came together. Sally Ride was obvious. She was an astronaut. And she had been a member of the Challenger
investigation board. She brought that historic knowledge. I don’t think that was the primary thing,
but it is probably good to have a balanced group. See, I actually did come on board pretty much
February 18th. That was when I came. I think that one of the early issues that
we faced was our relationship with NASA. I think at the very beginning NASA had this
image that we would work for them. That was one thing. And the second thing was that we would find
the widget that failed and then we would leave leaving them to carry on. Not with this group of people you don’t do
that, and not in this situation. We very clearly and fairly early established
our independence. We removed a number of senior NASA people
from inline responsibility for the investigation like Ralph Rowe. Again, I’m blanking on these names, but the
people who had been in charge of the program. Of course, some of them quit even before we
got there. Linda Ham was right in the middle of things. And we just said look, we’re not questioning
your integrity but you just cannot investigate yourself so we need to move you aside. Go back to your normal responsibilities and
bring in independent people who had not been so deeply involved. And they will be the primary interface between
the Accident Investigation Board and NASA because we really needed to use NASA. I basically had very strong interactions with
the NASA aerodynamics division. And you will see the reasons why as we proceed. But at the end of my interaction with them,
which occurred at the end of June, and they presented their 450 page report to me with
all the calculations and studies and things that they had done at my direction, I basically
looked to the group and said well, I think I could probably give 22 PhDs at this point
to this group. Because we had really pressed the envelope
in terms of improving the methodology that we used to analyze some of the details of
kind of what I’m going to talk about. But, in any case, the issue of independence
was extremely important. And I recall a lot of meetings with a lot
of banging on the table and yelling and screaming before we finally got this all straightened
out. Admiral Gehman was an incredible leader. He really just did such good work. He had a sense of where to press and where
to stay on pad and how to interact. He really was a marvelous chairman. Incidentally, he recently served on the BRAC
Commission so he is somebody who is deeply involved in public service. And I know, from my conversations with him,
that he is a person who refuses to serve on any board of directors that has anything to
do with the Department of Defense because he does not want to give the appearance of
a conflict of interest. And he is just a man of incredible integrity. Obviously, I am a big fan. In any case, we proceeded then to wrap our
group together and begin our interactions with NASA. 12:30 And I will show that a couple of times. And this happened in about 81 seconds, two
seconds after launch. I don’t remember the mach number, but I think
it was something like 2, 2.5, something like that. This is the video. And you see the piece coming off and smashing. And I will show it again. That video was pretty much available the weekend
of the launch. There was an understanding among senior program
managers that there could be a problem. Now, what did we know about it? Well, there were video cameras at the site. There was a video camera located here, a video
camera located here. A rather shallow angle to try to do any triangulation. But, obviously, you use what you have. And so, as a result of triangulated these
two video cameras, we were able to make an estimate. It’s probably also worth mentioning that there
were other video cameras but they were out of order. Right. And I was going to talk about that with respect
to our recommendations. One of our recommendations was that working
video cameras were an absolute necessity for launch. In other words, you do not launch if you don’t
have a reasonable set of video cameras. And, by the way, you don’t launch at night
because then, obviously, the video cameras would not be any good. That was one of our recommendations, what
I would call a near term recommendation, return to flight recommendation. Yes? [AUDIENCE QUESTION] I don’t know the answer to that. Maybe you know the answer to that. It is very interesting because I have been
doing a lot of mission assurance and space accident stuff. You almost always have a picture of a space
accident mostly because they occur on launch. So, in the case of the Challenger, we had
excellent video. We could see the little hole in the Challenger. We could see the stuff coming out. In this case, we had reasonable video of potential
impact. You can launch with an 8000 foot ceiling. In which case we would not have seen the Challenger. Yeah, at that point. I don’t think it’s true now. And I don’t know how they followed up on that,
but there is also a possibility of using aircraft if they cannot get the video. In any case, it turns out to be an important
issue. And we made recommendations. What we knew about the impact was we figured
— Of course you guys all know exactly what this is. This is the left wing underside. This is where the curvature changes, and so
it was kind of right in here some place, what we refer to as panel seven, panel eight, panel
nine of the underside of the composite material that surrounds the leading edge. Now, I don’t know if you guys have studied
that composite material. It is a truly marvelous material. And I may say a little bit more about it. So, we sort of knew where the impact had occurred. Obviously, we were hampered by the shallow
angle of the video but this was our best estimate. The velocity was estimated to be roughly 800
feet per second. And that was obtained from several different
methods. One was a computational fluid dynamics calculation
of how would the airstream accelerate a piece of foam of that particular shape weighing
two pounds and having it hit? And the other thing was from the video itself. We had pretty good correlation between the
estimates based on the video and the estimates based on calculations using computational
fluid dynamics, so we felt pretty comfortable about this velocity. What did we know? When I joined the board what did we know? What kind of data did we have? Well, this particular vehicle had some telemetry
of some sensors in the wing and in other places. At this point in the investigation, we had
not recovered the flight data recorder. The other thing that is interesting is that
this is the only vehicle with a flight data recorder. This is the vehicle that was considered to
be a research and development vehicle. All the other vehicles were operational. They did not equip them with flight data recorders. Now, I will get back to this point when I
talk about the criticisms that we had of the agency. But we took strong exception to the notion
that the Shuttle had be declared to be operational. And, therefore, there was no need to continue
to study it as a research and development vehicle. It was just like a piper cub or a 747. That takeoff was a routine event and was not,
in fact, a major event. And even in this system, if a sensor failed
in the flight data recorder it was not replaced. So what we had on the Columbia was a wasting
asset, but at least we had an asset. We had a flight data recorder. At this point we had not found it. Where were these sensors located? Well, there were a lot of sensors in the wheel
well. There were some temperature sensors in this
region of the leading edge. There were some temperature sensors back in
here and different places. Now, one thing that is significant about this
is that these temperature sensors were connected to two different boxes. Actually, it looks like three but what I’m
going to focus on are these wires. Some of the temperature sensors were connected
to wires that were basically in this region and running along the wheel well. 19:30 That’s one of the reasons why that was
important and kind of how we began to hypothesize what had gone wrong. Now, you see the time was sort of 8:44. That is Eastern Standard, I think. I was shopping, actually, at the time. Between 8:44 and 9:00 is when all of this
took place, so we’re talking about 15 minutes of problems. At 8:44 everything was fine and at 9:00 the
vehicle had crashes. 20:30 Why did these sensors fail first? It was because the wire that controls these
sensors is located here in this sort of critical area, so that was the wire cutting. Yes? You said the other orbiters don’t have flight
data recorders. Right. [AUDIENCE QUESTION] Commercial, that’s a whole different mindset. Yeah. I mean those carry people and it is an FAA regulation. 21:30 That the wires were being cut. And so we could follow the failure of these
sensors right up to the point when the vehicle, we had loss of signal which was at about 8:59. This whole thing happened fairly rapidly,
of course, and this was the trajectory of the vehicle. I will show another picture, but the whole
problem sort of started off Hawaii and then the vehicle began to break up here in Texas. This was kind of what we knew on roughly February
18th. In fact, that’s all we knew really. I mean the temperature increases were not
particularly dramatic, you know, 50 degrees, 30 degrees. That’s not really interesting. What was interesting is the wires were cut. That was more interesting. OK. We began to look for the debris. We had people essentially marching over the
State of Texas about that far apart. It was an extremely expensive thing, but we
recovered about 40% of the material that came from Columbia. And, of course, it is all these little pieces
of stuff that fell on the ground. Fortunately, it fell in a fairly rural area. Nobody was hurt. I don’t think there was any damage to structures
or anything like that. And we were able to recover a great deal of
it. A lot of it, because I actually looked at
the weather radar, was very small particles that actually floated into the Gulf of Mexico. I mean you could see it on the weather radar,
the NEXRAD system. You guys all know what the weather radar is. But you could see the particles streaming
into the Gulf of Mexico. I think a lot of it was just sort of vaporized. And there is a footprint of the debris. And we did a lot of searching in that area. We tried to search upstream. We were really trying to find the earliest
pieces of debris, but these fell down onesies and twosies in really strange places like
in mountains in Utah and stuff like that. So we were never really successful, although
some of these had been tracked on radar by the FAA. And there is the debris collection, a hanger
down at Kennedy. This is pretty standard stuff for a commercial
aircraft, I think you all know that. When you have an accident, what you try to
do is recover the debris and reconstruct the vehicle. This debris was particularly interesting. And I don’t know if I have a graph later,
but let me talk a little bit about the temperatures involved. We’re talking about reentry of a damaged vehicle
at mach 25. Now, of course, that is the course that I
tried to get out of when I was a graduate student, was that high temperature stuff where
the gas begins to ionize and dissociate and, you know, all that enthalpy stuff. I really tried to avoid that, so I got paid
back. Anyway, that is the subject of high-speed
gas dynamics. And so I had to take a refresher course. And Judd Barren, one of our faculty members,
was extremely helpful. I used to go over to his house on Saturdays
and he would give me references. But, roughly speaking, if the gas didn’t dissociate,
the temperatures on reentry at the leading edge of this vehicle would give off 50,000
degrees Fahrenheit, which is really pretty hot. The fact that the gas does dissociate — Ionization
at this mach number is not that important. It interferes with the radio signals but does
not, in fact, absorb a lot of energy. The gas is slightly ionized 1%, something
like that, 2%, but not enough to be a big energy issue. But the dissociation of oxygen, dissociation
of nitrogen is an extremely important phenomenon. And, because of that, the gas temperature
is roughly 10,000 degrees Fahrenheit which is a lot better than 50,000 degrees Fahrenheit. So that makes a big difference. Let’s talk about the leading edge material. The leading edge material is, in fact, an
incredible material. It is a carbon-carbon composite material. It is about a quarter of an inch thick and
it can withstand a temperature of 3200 degrees Fahrenheit. And the Shuttle was conceived in, what are
we talking about here, ’70? Yeah, ’69, ’70. We don’t have much better materials today. We might be able to go to 3400 degrees Fahrenheit
instead of 3200 degrees Fahrenheit, so we’ve made some progress, but this is a marvelous
material. Now, how in the world, with the gas temperature
of 10,000 degrees Fahrenheit, can you use a material of 3200 degrees Fahrenheit? Well, that’s the other part that I tried to
avoid as a graduate student. It is called radiation. And what is it? The Stefen-Boltzmann Law of Radiation, T to
the fourth. And you could write it down on the back of
an envelope and you can calculate it. And it turns out that the gas coming in does
heat the leading edge up, but then the leading edge radiates out the right amount of energy
to basically have an equilibrium temperature of the order of magnitude of, say, 2800 degrees
or maybe 3000 degrees. It is comfortable below its maximum temperature,
but this is obviously a very dangerous situation. In the early days of the Shuttle Program they
made some tests of this material, its ability to withstand impact. They shot BBs at it and made quarter inch
holes in it. And then I’m a little fuzzy on this part. They may have tested those quarter inch holes
in an arc jet to see would they ablate, how would they behave and would they grow? And I think at that point they felt comfortable
that they could withstand the impact of a BB and not be destroyed. So that is an important set of issues. I guess the other thing I want to point out
is if you have a good solid continuous edge you can support a temperature of 3200 degrees
because of radiation. But if you get a hole in that leading edge
then the gas that goes into the cavity behind the leading edge is your old friend 10,000
degrees. But there is no radiation balance to bring
you back down to 3200 degrees so you have a 7000 to 10,000 degree arc jet coming through
any major size hole in the leading edge of the shuttle. And that is, of course, exactly what happened. And, to remind people, 10,000 degrees is the
surface temperature of the sun. Oh, it’s very hot. Yes. There is no material that will withstand this. And this happens routinely in shuttle operations
is that the shuttle reenters at mach 25 and the temperatures of the gas surrounding the
shuttle are about 10,000 degrees. And we’ve successfully gone through how many
shuttle flights in total? 114. It’s a sporty course. Now, I want to talk about something else we
knew before we found the flight data recorder. And this was of great interest to me for lots
of different reasons, but one of the things we were able to do is infer the aerodynamics
of the damaged vehicle by looking at what the Flight Control System had to do in order
to keep the Shuttle perfectly on its pre-assigned flight path. In other words, until very late in the flight
the Shuttle was doing exactly what it was programmed to do. But it was working a lot harder and in very
off nominal ways. And we had to back this out. Now, this is almost like a zero over zero
calculation so it’s a little sensitive, a little hard to do, but this was something
the aerodynamics group did. And I worked really closely with these guys. I have great admiration for them. They were able to back out the off nominal
roll moments and the off nominal yaw moments of the Shuttle during this final reentry. And I made this little schematic of kind of
where were they when some of these things happened in terms of the Coast of California
and their flight over New Mexico and down to loss of control over Texas. Before I do that, let me just add to my previous
remark that you almost always have a picture of a space accident. Now, normally that’s because space accidents
occur on launch. This is a remarkable photo of a space accident. This photo was taken by modestly my guys at
Kirtland Air Force Base. And basically they had been working with optics. That is basically their business. And so Saturday morning IBM personal computer,
fooling around with some little telescope that they had been developing for tracking
things. 32:00 Yeah, this is interesting. This is a bulge at the leading edge showing
some distortion of the shock shape due to vehicle damage. And I obviously consider this photo to be
extremely probative. And also there is a small amount of debris
that has got some optical signature to it that is sort of streaming out of that general
area indicating — I mean there are all sorts of things going on in this vehicle, but one
of the things that was going on was the melting of aluminum, the vaporization of aluminum
and the combustion of aluminum because aluminum will burn. I don’t know how many of you know it but aluminum
is something you add to rocket engines in order to get higher temperatures. It burns when it gets hot enough. It can be a very dangerous material. In any case, we suspect there was a lot of
aluminum combustion going on while this thing was happening. Had there been, for reference, any similar
photographs? No. So we didn’t have a nominal baseline. No, as far as I know. I actually don’t know the answer to that question. I know, because I know the guys who took the
photo and I know their boss, that they were doing it for a very specific reason that had
nothing to do with anything they had done in the past. They were trying to develop a little telescope
to track things because that’s what they do at Kirtland, is they work with optics. But I don’t know whether anybody has tried
to do it. I suspect their level of precision is a little
greater than the average citizen trying to take a picture of the Shuttle coming in. But this was not a really high powered telescope. I mean they had some really high powered telescope
at Kirtland. This was just a small one. Anyway, I don’t know the answer to that. Well, I think what we’re looking at here is
the glowing of this 10,000 degree envelope that surrounds the Shuttle. That is what we’re looking at, is we’re looking
at the radiation, basically, from the gas surrounding the Shuttle. It was normal. But, of course, this was 8:50 in the morning
Boston time. This is February so it probably was dark in
New Mexico. That is kind of the picture that we go, which
I think is really neat. This is the trajectory, but this is the backing
out of the off nominal moments. Now, let me talk about the yaw moments just
to give you a feeling for what does all this mean. I contend that off nominal aerodynamic forces
are an indication of external damage to the vehicle. That is basically what it is. The vehicle was flying because its reaction
jets were moving and doing all sorts of things. The aerodynamic surfaces were virtually useless
at these dynamic pressures. This was a reaction jet controlled vehicle,
but we knew how much force the reaction jets were putting out so we could do the vehicle
aerodynamics. Let me talk about the yaw moment. What we have here is that as the accident
began the yaw moment became negative, kind of flattened out for a little while and then
became very strongly negative. What is yaw moment? Yaw moment is the force turning the vehicle
this way. If I have a damaged left wing, what is my
yaw moment going to be and why? Well, I’m going to have increased drag on
this wing because I’ve got a big chunk out of the leading edge, I’ve got a disturbed
shock, I’ve got all sorts of stagnation pressure in this region where in normal circumstances
it would be smoothly flowing. I’ve got increased drag on this wing, and
so that’s going to drive me this way which is exactly what you see. That is off nominal yaw moment. Roll moment is a little stranger. Basically, as the drag increases, and you
probably lose lift so your roll moment begins to go like that, you have decreasing roll
moment. This was a bit of a mystery because basically
what it said is you lose roll moment, but then all of a sudden your roll moment increases. That is a problem that only an aeroelastician
could solve. I happened to be an aeroelastician. Do you know what I’m talking about? If you stick your hand out of the car window
and you turn it slightly what happens? It goes up. And it may also turn some more. In other words, if you lose the leading edge
spar of a wing, you lose its resistance to torsion. Now, we don’t have all the data we need to
prove that that’s what was going on. But I believe a strong hypothesis that we
lost the strength in the leading edge spar and the leading edge spar tipped up. And obviously the lift would increase because
the angle-of-attack was increasing. But this was a very, very puzzling and very
interesting phenomenon. But, in any case, what happened is that both
the roll moments and the yaw moments got too strong for the control system of the vehicle
which, again, was just the reaction control jets that are on the area around the vertical
tail. Then, ultimately, the thing went into a spin,
lost control and then, of course, the vehicle was lost, began to break apart. This was a very interesting set of data. And, as I say, when we started, this was pretty
much all we had. There was a pivotal moment, and it occurred
sort of at the end of March, about March 27th. Remember, the accident occurred February 1st. We found the flight data recorder. And we found it by these guys walking across
the field looking for stuff. And the flight data recorder was found. And it was in pretty good condition considering
it had done a reentry at mach 25. We were able to recover the data from the
flight data recorder. I think we pretty much got it all. At that point we had hundreds and hundreds
of data points. And I would say, at this point, NASA’s attitude
changed. I think up until this point there had been
a certain level of denial about the accident, about what caused it. Maybe it was a micro meteorite. Maybe it was some unexplained system failure. They were not really sure that we were pursuing
the right road until the flight data recorder was found. And I think maybe that’s to NASA’s credit. NASA is data driven. And when they began to see the data and they
began to see how well the data correlated with the hypothesis and the models then they
hopped right onboard and did a tremendous amount of work to try to help us unscramble
all of this and come to a hypothesis. What kind of data did we have? Well, this is a picture of the leading edge
spar, this big thing here. And this is a picture of the hypothesis sort
of about a piece of foam taking out a fairly large piece of this carbon-carbon fiber and
allowing hot gas to enter into the region behind the leading edge. This leading edge region is, as you can see
by the picture, sort of hollow. There isn’t anything back there. There is a layer of insulation covering this,
but that is because of the radiation. In other words, because this, in fact, is
3200 degrees. It radiates in both directions. And so there is a layer of insulation here
to protect against radiation. But that insulation will not protect against
the equivalent of an arc jet. That is just, again, burrowing and blasting
it. It was fairly quickly that this gas just blew
a hole through the leading edge spar. How did we know that? Well, it’s kind of interesting. Let’s look at one of these. We had all these wires back here. And we had these temperature sensors. Let’s just pick one temperature sensor. I didn’t even know where it was located, but
it was not located in this region. It was located back someplace else. So we looked at the temperature sensor and
compared it with earlier flights where the earlier flights would show this behavior and
this temperature sensor kind of did this. It began to go up and then all of a sudden
we lost it. What happened? 42:00 The
picture begins to emerge of wire bundles being
cut, of gas entering here, of this wire bundle being cut to the sensor of this, in fact,
entire region beginning to sort of fill up with extremely hot gas, 7000 degrees roughly,
eventually entering the wheel well, although, that was later in the flight. We did have some indication of the gas in
the wheel well because of the temperatures and the loss of sensors. Because of this the focus turned to the question
of this what we call RCC, which is this composite material that surrounds the leading edge. And where did we find it? And we found a lot of it. I mean we found it all along in Texas. The other thing we were able to look at, with
respect to the RCC, is its pattern of erosion. I mean this RCC was kind of flopping out in
the breeze here at roughly 7000 to 10,000 degrees. And so it was a material that was being effectively
subject to an arc jet. And, if you took a material like that and
stuck it in an arc jet, it probably would ablate and it would maybe sharpen up and you’d
have maybe little pointy edges where it had ablated. And so we looked at the part that was particularly
eroded. And that would be the yellow stuff. And we found that upstream of the stuff that
was more put together, the rest of the RCC from the wing. And, from the right wing, we found the right
wing downstream of the left wing which means that the left wing came off first. Now, the image that emerges from this is hole
in the leading edge, material coming off, but gas flow going down this what some people
called the “chunnel.” I never liked that term, but it’s a big open cavity. Gas flowing down this open cavity and simply
destroying all the fittings that held the RCC onto the wing. I mean the screws and the brackets and all
of that. And, again, gas is coming in. And the wing just unzips. All this stuff just kind of unzips and falls
off. And, of course, that is where we find it,
just lying on the ground. It all unzipped and fell off. What did we actually find? 45:30 What we had to do, however, is to construct
analysis using a whole lot of different disciplines. And we had to be able to analyze, according
to the rules of that discipline, and line them all up for consistency. And I would say that we never found a theoretical
or experimental result that was in conflict with our basic hypothesis. And that everything sort of lined up. I was more or less in charge of the aerodynamic
analysis, as well as my favorite subject thermodynamic analysis. I never liked that part either, but the whole
question of heat transfer and how fast these materials would melt, I was pretty much involved
in that. I may have another picture later, but let
me just show you some pictures that we had. There is a hypersonic wind tunnel down at
Langley. And we did a lot of tests in that wind tunnel. One of the things we did was we had a score
of wind tunnel models. They were about this big. But we took chunks out of their leading edge. We have our wind tunnel model which was the
nominal shuttle. And then we’d have a nominal shuttle with
panel six missing and then a nominal shuttle with panel seven missing and a nominal shuttle
with panel eight missing. 47:30 And then you see the green. That is probably a little intermediate temperature. And then you see the blue. That is probably lower. But, if you look at this, being an aerodynamicist,
I can tell you where that vehicle gets hot. It gets hot near stagnation points and near
leading edges. And especially at the stagnation point on
the vehicle. You can put a wind tunnel model like that
in a hypersonic tunnel painted with this special paint, and you can take pictures of it and
you can get that temperature distribution. Here is my little figure of aerodynamic forces. We had all sorts of data from both the flight
data recorder and the telemetry that gave us a pretty good indication of the timeline. If any of you ever want to come into my office,
I have this enormous poster. It’s like ten feet long which basically shows
the timeline of the Shuttle reentry with all kinds of the individual data bits, the temperature
distributions and all the things that kind of we could fit on this enormous poster. That is kind of what we were trying to do. We looked at the debris. We looked at forensic analysis of the debris. Where was it ablated? What was its chemical composition? Did we see melted Incanol? I mean we saw all these things and were able
to figure it out. Well, we knew what temperature Incanol melts
at so, therefore, the temperature on this particular piece was, I don’t know what the
temperature of Incanol is, but let me say 1200 degrees. It would be that kind of
material. 49:30 And you don’t replace this material. This material is the same material that was
used on the original shuttles. Every time it flies it loses a little bit
of stuff through vaporization. And so then they kind of tried to paint it
again, but I think our hypothesis is it just gets weaker and weaker as it is being used. And the problem is it is hardly being made
anymore. It is material that was all made at the beginning
of the program. It is not being made anymore. It is very expensive. It is not a material that is easy to get. And, in fact, that became an issue for us
because one of the things I will show is we wanted to do a full scale mockup of the leading
edge and we wanted to test it with a piece of foam going 800 feet per second. Now, why would we want to do that? Well, that is exactly the test conditions
that we wanted to simulate. Well, that is not only expensive but this
material just doesn’t exist. I don’t remember where we got the material. We probably took it off of Endeavor or something
like that. But, I mean, this was a big deal that we should
run this test because the material is very precious. But, anyway, we banged on the table and said
that we were going to do this and that they had to support us. We did the wind tunnel test. I have a question about that test. Yes? My reaction, as an outsider, when they published
the pictures of the holes on that test was wow. Wow. That was my reaction, too. Yeah, my reaction was wow. 51:30 Anyway, we did the tests and we studied
timelines, we conducted arc jet tests, we did forensic analysis of debris, both chemical
and sort of physical. We did a lot of different in-depth analysis. The test itself, in addition to being expensive
and working with material that was really hard to pull together enough of this material
to run the test was also emotional. It was also an emotional event for the people
involved. And just very late in the game NASA said we
are prepared to accept that the foam put a hole in the leading edge so don’t run the
test. And we said well, you may be prepared to accept
his but somewhere down in your organization is someone who doesn’t believe that, and this
test is for him. I actually met that guy. I mean there are people in NASA who do not
believe this. So maybe what makes sense is let me show the
movies and then we will have our break. Here is the wow. Can I hear it from the class? Wow. And this really was. I mean the guy who developed this material,
and, as I say, I have great respect for that material. 53:30 Let me go inside. This is inside. They had a camera mounted inside. That is kind of gee whiz thing because you
can see the deformation before it breaks. Was this done in the wind tunnel? No, this was a full scale mockup that was
done at Southwest Research Institute. We had a big mockup of the vehicle. It was done outside. Southwest Research has been involved in the
Shuttle Program for quite a while. They have a foam gun that they have used to
shoot foam primarily at the underbody tiles. The concern has always been on the strength
of the tiles. Do you guys know what the tiles are? The sort of foam stuff that is underneath
the vehicle. They have done a lot of tests on foam. Not big pieces of foam but sort of small pieces
of foam. Never tested the leading edge because it is
damn expensive to test this leading edge material. And the only tests I am aware of were these
BBs that were shot. This was really the first time this test was
done. Now, let me make a profound comment about
space systems. There is a fundamental principle in the development
of space systems, test-as-you-fly. You all know that. I hope you all know that. This test should have been done at the beginning
of the Shuttle Program. It was not done. And the reason it wasn’t done is because there
was a requirement in the Shuttle Program that foam shouldn’t come off the orbiter or off,
whatever that thing is, the tank. It was a requirement that foam shouldn’t come
off the tank so, therefore, why do the test if it’s a requirement that foam not come off? Well, the fact of the matter is foam has come
off on every single shuttle flight, as far as we know. So this was a violation of the test-as-you-fly
principle. That is, I would say, the number one principle
in the development of space systems is test-as-you-fly. It is the most important thing. Anyway, we can take our break now. And remember JR Thompson’s remarks about testing
to failure, which they did on the main engine, didn’t do on the SRBs, and they clearly didn’t
do here. OK, a quick two minute, you know the drill. What you see is sort of an aluminum frame. I mean what you have here is really what would
be called a full scale mockup. It is an aluminum frame that holds the tile
in the right position. And I suppose holds it with fittings of the
right strength. In other words, what you’re trying to do is
replicate with what would be called a full scale mockup the structural conditions of
the leading edge. You would have fittings holding the panels
and then you would have it angled properly to the foam gun, which is over here some place,
and then you fire the foam at 800 feet per second. So that’s basically the test. And, as I say, it was done outdoors. It was quite spectacular. A big audience, you know, there was the media
and NASA. A big audience. It was quite an event. As a result of this, the committee felt pretty
confident that we had identified the technical cause of the accident. When we started this, we didn’t know how sure
we would be so we had all these words like probably, more likely than not, conceivably. Because we needed to think about describing
our certainty whether we knew, in fact, what had happened. But by the time we finished all of this, because
everything had lined up so well, we felt pretty confident that we knew, in fact, what had
happened. And so we all sat down around the table and
argued about these words. This was a committee consensus. We voted on every word. Well, not every word. Some of the words are obvious. But we basically came to consensus on every
single important word in this statement of technical cause. I will just sort of let you read it because
it took us a long time to write. I should mention that one of the things. And I think this was from the flight data
recorder. I really have not given you as much data about
the flight data recorder. But one of the things we had from the flight
data recorder is an indication of conditions on assent relative to earlier flights. And if you look at the conditions on assent,
you can make a pretty good case that there was a hole in the leading edge on assent after
the foam had hit. Because you see increased temperatures on
the sensor right behind that region of the leading edge. And so you can make a pretty good case that
the hole was there on assent after mach 2.5 or whatever the mach number was. But that was data from the data recorder? I believe it was from the flight data recorder. They didn’t get that on telemetry? They did not have that from telemetry. I’m pretty sure about that but I’m not absolutely
sure. Yes? [AUDIENCE QUESTION] Oh, they knew that weekend. Oh, in fact, I’m going to talk about that
because that’s part of the organizational and cultural issues. Finishing the technical cause, this was our
final statement about the cause of the accident. But we didn’t stop there. Not this group of people. Yes? I was going to ask how soon did you arrive
at the hypothesis that the hole led to the gases that led to the [OVERLAPPING VOICES]? I think pretty quickly? Yeah, I would say it was pretty quickly. Now, there was a little pushback from NASA
on that. But I described my appearance on February
18th on the board and the fact that we had the wire cutting sensor information, that
we had the video of the foam hitting the Shuttle and exploding. In other words, there was a shattering of
the foam. And we had the aerodynamic forces which indicated
damage to the vehicle which were consistent with the wing leading edge. We have a picture from Kirtland of some bulging
around the wing leading edge. I would think by sort of the third week in
February that’s where we were headed. Now, you don’t want to get blindsided. Sure, we don’t want to get blindsided. We got lots of inputs from the public, as
well as from the scientific community. And there was an input we felt we had to take
seriously. And I can sort of say what it was. We got an input from sort of solar physicists
who said that on that day there was a violent sun episode that would have sent a shower
of solar radiation to the earth on that particular day. And that it was possible that this could have
created some kind of shockwave in the vicinity of the Shuttle and done some damage. I mean it was a credible hypothesis. I called the Air Force. Out at Hanscom we have these guys who do basically
radiation physics, radiation weather, space weather. And Jim Hallock from DOT kind of shepherded
that part of the project, but Jim is a physicist. He has a PhD from MIT and works at the Department
of Transportation. And so the two of us go together and said
we have to take this seriously. We have to put an expert team together and
completely examine this hypothesis. So we did that. And we had data from all over the world of
this radiation coming in, and so it was very exhaustive. It turned out that this radiation didn’t reach
the earth until 3:00 PM on that day, but we took it seriously. I think that was probably one of the most
credible things. We obviously got a lot of junk stuff that
it was an Israeli plot or something like that. I cannot even remember those things. And then I think there was always this suggestion
that it was just a micro meteorite, but I think because of the magnitude of the damage
and the fact that, I think this is general knowledge, the Air Force watches space junk. They have a catalog of everything that is
lying up there, and there wasn’t really a piece up there large enough to do that kind
of damage so that was eliminated. There were a number of hypotheses. But, again, when we did the data, we didn’t
go in with a hypothesis. We went in to see what the data told us. That was a bit of independence with respect
to the data and the analysis. Yes? [AUDIENCE QUESTION] No, it
is melting. No,
the temperatures. See, it’s aluminum. [AUDIENCE QUESTION] Eventually. Well, I think heat was the main culprit. The dynamic pressures, and I am sorry I didn’t
bring the graph, in this regime were not that large. I am thinking they were less than 100 pounds
per square foot because you’re really up at very high altitude. And, even though you’re going very fast, the
dynamic pressures are not that high. I actually have a graph of dynamic pressures. In fact, come into my office and you will
see the dynamic pressure as a function. I would think the way to think about it is
that the important parts melted. See, we know from observations, and I didn’t
show all of these, but people were recording, I don’t remember what we called them, but
big pieces of the Shuttle were coming off. You saw the video with all these pieces flying
in, but we have pieces coming off as early as California. And I think we hypothesized at one point that
the upper wing came off. In other words, the upper surface of the wing
just lifted off. And the reason it did is not so much from
pressure is that all this gas is in there. Aluminum melts at 700 degrees Fahrenheit or
some ridiculously low number. We’re talking 7000 degrees Fahrenheit so we’re
talking about destruction primarily by arc jet. You have to think of the atmosphere as a big
arc jet. And eventually the vehicle became uncontrollable,
unflyable because the aerodynamics were so off nominal and the vehicle couldn’t be controlled. But, again, I think the dynamic pressures
didn’t get larger than 200 pounds per square foot. I don’t think. Which is about what I am doing right here. That is about 200 pounds per square foot. Yes? What happened to the crew? [AUDIENCE QUESTION] I probably don’t want to talk about that. We have some information. Well, let me say what I can say. The vehicle itself stayed intact through a
large part of the reentry and got into what would be called the fighter pilot’s regime,
you know, 50,000 feet. The actual cause of the death of the crew
was what any fighter pilot would experience if he lost his vehicle at 50,000 feet. It’s blunt force trauma. That is what it was. And we found a lot of the cockpit. Reentry is really interesting. There is something called ballistic coefficient. Do you know about ballistic coefficient? We found briefcases, pillows. Ballistic coefficient, people talk about it
in two different ways, and one is the reciprocal of the other. I always get confused about that. But if you have a low ballistic coefficient
and you drop a pillow at mach 25 at 400,000 feet, it would probably make it to the earth
because it will slow down and then it will just gradually float down to earth. We found a lot of the crew compartment, a
lot of pillows, chairs, all the stuff that was really light just reentered without burning
up because of ballistic coefficient. There was a lot there. 69:00 And so that gets into some of your questions having
to do with when did they know. And, of course, the big why question. Let me go to that. Now I’m going to go off into the second part
of our investigation. And we consider this to be as important, if
not more important than our technical investigation. We talked a little bit about the history of
the Shuttle Program. And I am sure that is something that you have
been through in terms of the budgets, the margins, what we believe is a mischaracterization
of the vehicle as a mature operational system. And we think that there is a story here to
be told, and so we looked into this. Now, I have to say that I was not as much
a part of this as some other members because I was busy on the aerodynamics part of it. But you had John Logsdon, we had quite a number
of the Air Force people, and Admiral Gehman were more deeply involved in pulling together
the sort of history of how this happened, the cultural issues. I am sort of reporting on behalf of my fellow
board members what our conclusions were and the data that we gathered together to put
this together. The things that were pointed out are that
there was this fundamental uncertainty in the Shuttle Program and that led to a sort
of fluctuating attitude towards investing in upgrades and infrastructure. The nation didn’t really know where it was
going. And I hope you won’t take offense at this. I worked for NASA. You worked for NASA. We found them to be an extremely insular organization. And I think, actually, they still are. They don’t take advice from the outside. And I will be prepared to admit that they
are the only organization that does human spaceflight, at least in our nation, but they
are not the only organization that handles risky technologies. And they have a lot to learn from other organizations. And they have not been a part of that conversation
with the type of people like the nuclear navy and some of the commercial industries that
use extremely risky technologies. They have not been a part of that dialogue. And that is where we have criticized them. As I say, they are insular. They think that they cannot learn anything
from anybody else. That they know how to do all these things
and that they don’t need to accept any external suggestions. That is a very dangerous line of reasoning
for an organization, really, no matter how good you are. So we felt that the people at NASA, that leadership
clearly believed these things and the people in the engineering workforce were under tremendous
pressure to go along, in some sense, with these basic attitudes. And we saw that in our investigation of kind
of the what went on during the flight. I mentioned before that there is this history
of foam. And let me introduce the word anomaly. Have you talked about anomaly? Not directly. OK. Anomaly is one of the most important words
in space systems. Anomaly means that something happened that
shouldn’t happen. Anomaly should bring your organization to
a standstill while you figure out what happened and why it happened. Anomaly is a violation of requirements. Sometimes I think it’s a euphemism for failure. Well, yeah. Hopefully you catch it before failure. Anomaly is a clue that something may even
worse happen down the road. It is something to be taken extremely seriously. Foam shedding off the tank was an anomaly. It didn’t destroy the vehicle but it is a
violation of requirements. And, in the early days, it was really put
on a list of problems to be worked. I mean NASA didn’t completely ignore it, but
they put it on a list of the other 5000 problems that needed to be worked. And they just kept flying until foam shedding
really became a normal expectation that all the flights would have foam shedding and that
nothing serious would ever happen. It was treated as a maintenance turnaround
problem, you know, when the vehicle gets back we can fix it. And that was true in this case, too. They said something like well, if foam hits
the Shuttle, we’ll fix it when it gets back. I mean that was the stance. Now, I think what’s interesting about this,
if you think about this, is that the anomaly of foam shedding without hurting the Shuttle
was treated as if it were a planned engineering test. In other words, it was a test that was planned
to see if foam could hurt the Shuttle. And the fact that foam didn’t hurt the Shuttle
was treated as confirmation that foam couldn’t hurt the Shuttle. Now, I think that’s kind of a fundamental. I like that particular phrase. There was enormous schedule pressure on NASA. They had already slipped a couple of times
because of other what I would call strong signals. We use the word strong signals. When something really dramatic is identified
NASA shuts down. And I don’t remember the issues. There was something about a connector that
didn’t seem to work properly and it just grounded the Shuttle fleet for three months or something. And there was some other problem that was
a strong signal and they simply shut it down. The foam we put in the category of a weak
signal. It is something that while you’re fighting
all the strong signals it is hard to justify shutting the organization down for what you
perceive as a weak signal. So they had used up almost all of their margin
to complete the Space Station. And they were under tremendous pressure. Sean O’Keefe was obviously sent to NASA to
put the house in order, put the schedule and the budget in shape and get this Space Station
finished by February 19th. Ooh, we’ve already passed that one. We will talk a little bit about what happened
on the ground while the vehicle was in the air. I mentioned before that in the military we
do two investigations. We do a safety investigation where the testimony
is privileged and we do an investigation which is public. And our group was kind of doing both. In other words, we were obviously doing a
public investigation. We had press conferences every week and the
media would come and we’d share everything with them. But, because we did have so many military
people who understood the importance of accident investigation, we also had, I don’t know,
an annex, I guess you’d call it, a way to take testimony and keep it privileged. And we did that. We took testimony from individual people at
NASA. It was privileged testimony. And they felt free to share with us their
participation and what happened and who said what when and all of that. And we had the damnedest trouble keeping this
from Congress. I mean it really was. And anything that’s written down is accessible
to Congress, at least that’s the way they look at it, but we really held very firm and
we would not allow this privileged testimony to be accessed. And I think the compromise we made was that
a staffer could come over to where we were located, he could read the testimony and take
no notes. Well, they soon tired of that so the fact
of the matter is they didn’t come. But we had a lot of privileged testimony that
allowed us to put this picture together with employees not being too concerned about the
implications of sharing with us. So, the weekend that the flight went up, NASA
knew that there was a potential problem. And they put in place something called the
“debris assessment team” which is supposed to look at all the data that they had and
decide whether or not there was a problem. Now, I’ve chaired a lot of committees, not
only here at MIT but other places. And I understand how important it is for a
committee to have a clear charter and a clear line of reporting and to have a certain level
of independence from their home organization. For example, if I were chairing a committee
here at MIT on an important research issue or important policy issue and members of my
committee were getting pressure from their department heads, I would blow the whistle. I would say that is not the way a committee
works. A committee has a charter. It has independence. It is not subject to outside influence from
the people to whom these people report in their normal way of life. So, with respect to the debris assessment
team, I would make two comments. First of all, they had a very unclear charter. It wasn’t clear kind of who they reported
to or what their authority was. And they, as individuals, were getting pressure
from their home organization, both NASA and the companies, the USA, Lockheed, Boeing,
because those guys were getting pressure from NASA. It was just an enormous amount of pressure
being applied to various people in what I considered to be a totally inappropriate way. In any case, this team, I admire them. I mean I think they were doing a good job. They wanted to get on-orbit pictures to see
whether or not using national assets we could take pictures of the Shuttle. And so, who do you contact when you want something
like that? You talk to the Air Force. And the Air Force is, of course, like a great
collie dog just waiting to show what they can do. You know? I mean oh, great, we’ve got this wonderful
opportunity to take these pictures. It’s really going to be fun. We’re going to show what we can do. They are very enthusiastic about responding
to that kind of request, but NASA didn’t want the pictures. I mean the senior managers of NASA didn’t
want the pictures. The debris assessment team did want the pictures. And they tried to make these requests of different
parts of the organization. And every time they would make a request it
would get slapped down by senior managers. Well, I guess we have it. This is a highly classified area, but let
me just say there were eight separate opportunities where we could have gotten some significant
information about the state of the Shuttle and we didn’t do it. We didn’t do it because every time there was
a flurry of activity around there NASA said they didn’t need it. They’d fix the Shuttle when it got back. If the damage had been discovered what do
you think would have been done? Well, I can talk to that issue. I mean this is as good a time as any. We actually asked NASA to do some studies
about what could have been done. This is a nation that will save a whale that
is trapped in the Arctic or Baby Jessica in the well. I mean if we find that there is a crisis we
will mobilize. There is no question about it. It would be a very chancy situation. We know the vehicle is destroyed. The vehicle is lost. There is no question about that the vehicle
cannot reenter safely with the people. So what was the best option? I mean we looked at the possibility of stuffing
the hole with things, you know, old sleeping bags and suitcases and stuff. There wasn’t anything onboard that could have
withstood the temperatures. And, of course, one of our recommendations
was that there should be some capability for in-flight repair. That has been a big issue. But the only other thing you could do is to
sort of go into life support mode. Stop doing the science. Jettison the module, I guess, which would
make the vehicle lighter and then maybe the reentry would be a little more successful. Conserve electricity. Conserve water. Conserve food. Try to stay in orbit for an additional, I
don’t remember the number, 15, 16 days, something like that so that you could send up a second
shuttle. I think it was Atlantis. They could get Atlantis ready and send it
up. It was sort of by chance, but it just happened
that in this mission they did have the possibility of doing a rescue. Right. It’s a gutsy move, but I have a feeling that
if we actually had that information that we could have put that together. It is interesting that when you read some
of the stuff that is being talked about, like the Hubble and things like that, we did not
recommend that a second shuttle be standing by. But that seems to have been internalized at
NASA as a potential safety measure. That they will always want to have a second
shuttle standing by if they send the shuttle up. The problem with that is it’s a bit of a “going
out of business” strategy because there aren’t that many left. Yes? [AUDIENCE QUESTION] We never looked at that option. We simply didn’t. This particular vehicle was not in an orbit
that could have reached the Space Station. And that is another big issue, is whether
you want to have the Space Station available for a safe house if you have an accident. In this particular case, this vehicle could
not have reached the Space Station. Soyuz could not have reached this because
Soyuz launches from 51 degrees. This was in 28 degrees. Also remember there were seven people aboard
so you would have needed three Soyuzs. The Russians just don’t have them available. It was either Atlantis or nothing. Larry, you had a question. Yeah, going back to the on-orbit photo. It was alleged at the time that the NASA management
thought that the quality of the photos was what it had been several years earlier and,
therefore, would not have helped them. Let me speak to that because I was going to
mention that. In the early days of the Shuttle Program there
was, in fact, a good interaction between NASA and the national security apparatus that does
this sort of work. And people at NASA were cleared, to an appropriate
level, to have this interaction. That has atrophied. The current people at NASA basically have
no experience with that world, are not cleared to an appropriate level, have just not had
an interaction and see it as a bigger deal than it really is. It is not a big deal. We do it all the time with my collie dog friend. I mean it’s just not a big deal. So our recommendation was that there should
be a better interaction between NASA and the national security apparatus. And that the senior people at NASA should
be cleared to an appropriate level to have that interaction. And that this should be, in fact, routine
that you always take pictures when the shuttle is in orbit. And so I think that was basically one of our
recommendations. In any case, we were not pleased with the
decision or the failure to take photos onboard. 86:00 It was called the “crater model”. Its fundamental purpose was to figure out
whether foam would hurt the tiles. It was developed as a result of the experiments
done at Southwest Research Institute of shooting small pieces of foam at the tiles. Not the leading edge but the tiles. And it was sort of all things kind of rolling
together. The people who developed this model were in
Huntington Beach, California when they transferred the operation to the Cape or to Houston, I
don’t remember. The senior people in that group refused to
move so they turned the tool over to junior people. There was a loss of corporate memory, a loss
of understanding, and so it just got worse and worse and worse. And so finally the people who were applying
these tools were not the same people who were in the development of the tool and really
lacked understanding of what this tool was all about. The tool predicted that you had a serious
problem. But they said, oh, well, the tool always over-predicts. They ignored it and said there was no problem. I mean it was just cascading of kind of bad
things happening. We talked a little bit about the organization
of NASA. And I don’t know whether you talked to Aaron,
but this would be a good question to ask Aaron Cohen. I am setting him up here. About an independent safety organization at
NASA. Yes? [AUDIENCE QUESTION] As far as we can tell nothing until about
one or two minutes before. Actually, Mission Control had arranged for
a press conference with the crew in orbit. Right. Are you going to mention that? I will talk about that. Because the crew new that some foam had come
off, but they were told that it was no problem. Yeah, but that’s different than the crew knowing. Right. No, I think that is true. That the crew was notified that there had
been an incident on liftoff but there was no problem. And the only reason they told them was because
somebody from the press might ask them. Yeah. And I have had media training so I know exactly
what they were thinking about. The Shuttle lands, the astronauts get out,
the microphone gets into the mouth and they say do you know? And the astronauts would say of course, we
knew, and we understood it was no problem. I mean it was a pre-media sort of skull session
for the astronauts, as opposed to a more responsible concern. What we do know about the astronauts is we
have the voice recording and stuff, and I think there was something from Mission Control
to the astronauts saying we see a temperature anomaly in your wheel well. The temperature was 50 degrees higher than
would have normally been. And this was literally just like I don’t think
any more than five minutes before the vehicle lost control. Maybe even less than that. I mean it’s all in the timeline. And that is probably all I want to say about
it. I think the evidence we have seems to indicate
that the astronauts knew. Obviously, when the vehicle went out of control
they knew there was a problem, when it began spinning and stuff like that. But, as far as we know, there was no indication
prior to that. Everything else was sort of nominal. Yes? After both shuttle accidents, you have investigation
boards, but what happened after Apollo 1, for example? [AUDIENCE QUESTION] I don’t know the answer to that. Well, actually, that’s what Aaron did talk
about, safety organization with respect to that and Apollo 13 and the fact that when
it was set up, they did start out with a very strong independent safety organization which
did not exist before Apollo 1. 90:30 Now, why did we say that? Well, you’re all engineers. The idea behind an independent safety organization
is that you should have engineers fighting. How do engineers fight, in an ideal world? They fight with data and analysis and hypothesis
and testing. In other words, if the program wants to waive
a requirement, change a requirement then they have to present a case. And if the safety organization feels that
there is crossing the line then they present a case. And the two organizations basically try to
bring together the best analytical and experimental framework they can in order to determine what
should be done. And so that’s the notion of an independent
safety organization. I guess the thing that I was somewhat gratified
by, we will see how it all works out, is that we recommended, as a return to flight thing,
that NASA present a plan for an independent safety organization with the idea that in
the midterm they would actually begin such an organization. Sean O’Keefe took the bit in his teeth, I
guess is the way to say it, and he moved out much more strongly on that than I would have
anticipated. We met with him last December. I guess it was December. These years go by very quickly. But he had actually put in place a structure,
to get ready for the flight, that had outside experts from within NASA to sort of come together
as an independent safety board to look at anomaly resolution. I guess they didn’t do too good on the foam. But, in any case, as far as the structure
goes, it was a stronger safety structure than had existed before. That was something that we recommended. It was very important that there be an independence
in the safety organization and that this is, in fact, a characteristic of an organization
that effectively manages high-risk. And we would claim that there are several
such organizations in our country. And there is a lot to be learned and a lot
to be shared. We also looked at the comparisons between
this accident and the Challenger accident. And, in fact, found more similarity than you
might have expected given that Challenger occurred on liftoff and this occurred, well,
in reentry, but did occur on liftoff. In terms of the role of engineers and technical
managers, this notion of normalizing deviance. Deviance is an anomaly. It is a departure from the requirements. And, if you normalize it, it means you accept
it. You accept it and, in fact, you try to profit
from it by saying that it’s proven that there is no danger. So this phrase normalization of deviance is
an important sort of technical phrase that our group used. We had with us, actually, a faculty member
from Boston College who had written a book on the Challenger investigation. She is a social scientist, and she worked
very closely with us to try to put, what I would call, the social science and organizational
effects together. That is Diane Vaughn. You might bring her over some time. She is a fascinating speaker. But the thing that was interesting about Diane,
not only was she a great colleague, she published her first book on the Challenger accident,
is there’s an in-depth analysis of the cultural flaws in the organization that led to the
Challenger accident. She published this book. And she said well, you know, I got a lot of
reaction from the book. She said the Navy called, my old boyfriend
called, the various industries called to have her come and talk about safety culture. NASA never called. NASA never indicated any interest in her analysis
of the cultural flaws within the organization that led to the Challenger accident, which
I think is another indication of the insularity. That was, I think, an important input to our
look at the organizational issues. We got together as a result of all of this. And, as I said, I wasn’t deeply involved in,
say, some of the privileged interviews having to do with the individuals. But certainly as a board, we came to this
organizational cause which we considered to be as important as the technical cause. And the various words rooted in the Space
Shuttle Program. History and culture. Original compromises that were required to
gain approval. The years of resource constraints. The fluctuating priorities. The scheduled pressures. This mischaracterization of the Shuttle as
operational rather than developmental. Lack of agreed national vision for human space
flight. The cultural traits and organizational practices
that were detrimental to safety that we’re allowed to develop including reliance on past
success as a substitute for sound engineering practices such as testing to understand why
systems were not performing in accordance with requirements. Organizational barriers that prevented effective
communication of safety information and stifled professional differences of opinion. Lack of integrated management across program
elements and the evolution of an informal chain of command and decision-making process
that operated outside the organization rules. A bit of an old-boy network in some sense. And we should mention the lack of an agreed
national vision for human space flight has been the jumping off point for everything
that has happened since with the new vision, which is presumably going to determine what
we do in the next ten years, so I think it is great that all of you called attention
to that. Let me talk about our recommendations. We made recommendations in basically three
piles. One of them are the near term recommendations
which are the return to flight recommendations. And these were monitored by a committee of
28 people. It was enormous. In any case, we asked them to present a plan
for an independent safety organization. I think they went a little further. We asked that they develop a method to do
onboard repair. Now, there was a big discussion about onboard
repair. It is very clear that it is much easier to
do onboard repair for all sorts of different reasons, including crew safety if you are
going to the Space Station. Because then you’ve got a safe house and all
sorts of supplies. It is like your recreation room. If you’re not going to the Space Station,
it is considerably more dangerous, and that is the fundamental issue with respect to a
Hubble mission. Because a Hubble mission is incompatible with
going to the Space Station. If you take this recommendation seriously,
you either have to develop an autonomous onboard repair, which is much more difficult than
a Space Station onboard repair, or you cannot have any Hubble mission. So, this is a bit of turmoil in the political
issues surrounding missions. The other impacts, as I mentioned, not our
recommendation, but this notion of having a second shuttle standing by seems to have
been internalized. There were a number of other recommendations. Our report is on the Web. I mean more video cameras. More onboard video that gets telemetered to
the ground during the flight so you don’t have to wait until the vehicle gets back to
see the video. External video cameras launched during day. Keep your sensors up to date. I mean there was just a whole lot of I think
25 recommendations of a return to flight. And the Return to Flight Committee was in
charge of monitoring all of those. And they have recently issued a report. Incidentally, I got a copy of the Return to
Flight report and donated it to the AeroLibrary. It should be in the AeroLibrary. And there was a very interesting minority
report that was submitted by like about five people which was just damming with respect
to their observations about how NASA works the safety issues. Take it as the opinion of these five people
who were on the Return to Flight Committee. It makes good reading. But that is all in the AeroLibrary. Our midterm recommendations. In some sense, we made these recommendations
assuming the Shuttle Program would continue. And I think we had this recommendation for
an independent safety organization. And what I thought was one of our most important
recommendations was that if you intend to fly the Shuttle past 2010, you should recertify
it. Now, certification is a very technical process
where you have to go through every piece of equipment and, in some sense, revalidate that
it will satisfy the requirements. 101:05 What better project for the Shuttle
Program Office and the Independent Safety Organization than to recertify the Shuttle? At least that was my vision. That would really be an extremely useful thing
to do, to work together, to recertify the Shuttle. Now, unfortunately, evidently the Shuttle
is not going to operate past 2010 so we will see. I mean they won’t recertify it. Now, I think what’s going to happen is they’re
going to get up to 2009 and are going to say oh, my gosh, we don’t have any way to get
to space. There is going to be enormous pressure to
keep the Shuttle operating past 2010. And, of course, they will be late to need
in terms of recertifying. It is going to be a bit of a jump-all at that
point. It should be very interesting to watch. Now, the long-term recommendation, of course,
we made was that we need an agreed upon vision for further manned space flight. And so, from my point of view, we skip the
midterm and we went immediately to the long-term because with the President’s new program that
we have basically set this vision. And, unfortunately, we have skipped some of
the intermediate steps that would have strengthened NASA as an organization and its ability to
carry out a new mission. I stand back watching, as all of this develops,
having had this incredible background of being a member of this Accident Investigation Board. It looks like I landed the plane right on
time. Yes. Incidentally, I brought this Halloween candy. And I would really appreciate it if you guys
would come and take it because it’s not something that my husband and I need. And if it doesn’t get eaten, would somebody
please take it down and put it with the graduate students downstairs? Good. Anyway, you had a question. I am wondering if you think there might have
been any effect on that if it was explicitly stated that this is why we want the recertification
to happen. I don’t know. You know, it is hard to micromanage a big
organization. I personally was disappointed because I believed
very strongly in this. And I felt that it would be a way to bring
the organization together around this set of ideas. So, that won’t happen. And we will see how they work with this “independent
safety board” that they have put in place. All of what we’re doing is self-education. It is organizational education. It is self-education. It is process education. So, we will see how they will bring all that
together. The reason I asked that was because actually,
in terms of reading this recommendation, I read it a little differently. I thought it was kind of a push to move past
the Shuttle to say that recertification is going to be too complicated. Well, there might have been a little bit of
that. I mean it really was up to NASA to decide
whether a process that was so resource-intensive was worth doing, I mean given the fact that
the Shuttle is in the sort of sunset of its career. I guess I felt that we should leave that to
them but that they could not continue to operate the way they were operating. I think that was really the message. They had to make a decision. Sheila, the board’s recommendation of the
number of 2010 has had enormous impact. I know. Of course it has. Very negative from my point of view. Say something about how you picked that number
and how flexible it is? Well, recall we did this in 2004. We wanted to give NASA enough time to get
back to flying. And, of course, the whole definition of what
recertification means is a bit unclear. In other words, I would think that NASA could
have gone in. I think what we saw was we needed to get a
couple of flights under our belt, but we needed to go back. I think what we meant by recertification is
a relook at the whole mission. What is that thing called? Mission rules? No, not mission rules. When they get together and decide whether
they are going to fly. Mission readiness review. Flight readiness review. We felt that the flight readiness review was
broken and that part of the reason it was broken is that there were too many requirements
that were silly like the Shuttle had only two wings instead of four because you’d need
redundancy. Wings are important, and if you really thought
they were important you would have four instead of two. And every time they did a flight readiness
review you would have to go through these, what I would call silly requirements. One issue about recertification was to try
to narrow down to what were the key systems that needed reexamination in the light of
technology and what we know about the Shuttle? That, in and of itself, would have been a
very useful process that would have helped this. And so, I think what we saw is that there
is a set of processes that need to be carried out after a couple of successful flights that
would really position the organization to do its job. 107:00 They wasted a lot of time. But suppose someone had come back to you,
or members of the board and said well, life would be easier for us if we called it 2013? Well, I would think if you’re going to do
that, that NASA should come forward with a plan at the minimum of how they’re going to
operate the Shuttle safely through 2013. They have not even thought about doing that. They are carrying on with “business as usual”. Flight, flight, flight. And they are not thinking about this more
fundamental issue which would, I think, be very useful for them as an organization of
what are the critical issues if we wanted to operate the Shuttle to 2013? They just kind of got off the hook by saying
2010, we can do that. You know, pretty shallow. Yes? And this is going to have to be the last question,
unfortunately. Anyway, you’re all invited to my office to
see my big poster on the flight. Your recommendation for not flying unless
you have a safe house in orbit. No, we didn’t recommend that. Oh, safe house in orbit. OK. If you would have said that at the beginning
of the Shuttle Program, that would have cut out dozens of flights. Sure. But, you see, at the beginning of the program,
NASA was committed to a system that met its requirements. Once they backed off of a system that met
it requirements, they left itself open to operating a risky system. And so then you come in, after having two
accidents, and say OK, how can we operate this system safety? You’ve already demonstrated that you’re willing
to back off on requirements so how can we identify what some key issues are so that
you get back to operating safely? What we fundamentally recommended was that
you should develop onboard repair capability. And that’s really all we said. And we sort of left open how they would do
that. And so they investigated a lot of things and
decided that it would be a heck of a lot easier if they could use the Space Station for a
repair. And so they themselves said OK, Space Station
only. That really was not our recommendation. Although, we understood that it would be a
lot easier to do Space Station repair. OK. Thank you very much. [APPLAUSE]

Only registered users can comment.

  1. these group studies are good for people. Get the info out. Keeping secrets from everyone is no good. You should learn from yours or others mistakes.

  2. Well we did have a Hubble mission and that awesome. The space shuttle is dead now and I think its a good thing. Focussing on other thing is what in the news now, not the next space shuttle flight.

  3. INPUT Notes from student:They could have issued a rapid response team via an older ship with an emergency module plug with supplies, if an outer air-frame hull check had ascertained that exterior TPL thermal protection layer, was either damaged or not 100% up to par.This option would have to insert as to pre-established pre-launched mission orbital trajectory natures to route.

    This could have been a re-designed Mercury or Gemini size grade of capsule, with a take along service plug, launched atop an Atlas or Titan earlier vintage booster.This could have been either a crew trained for exterior repairs to TPL knowledge and requirements, or just the supplied remotely directed to par shuttle orbital routes.

    What is known and understood about shuttle TPL, is that there are layers established, so the space walkers on EVA commands would must cleans out damaged portions of loose tile TPL remnants,.2.Then ascertain condition of layer and substrata coupled with under structural aluminum and felt mat mounting layer.

    3.If examination along with survey looks good and a zero G and vacuum repair to reestablished TPL restored to as near original condition is a go, then this action for in-orbit repair is taken.*Note that this repair is NOT factory supervised and qualified, so as best an effort to repair to desired action, must then be deemed as an acceptable repair, or not?

    4.For EVA post Ingres back into either visiting rescue or into shuttle orbiter, all adhesive glue mixtures must be localized and cleaned off of EVA suites, is curing fumes are a [email protected] ground tracking must match known orbital path matched to any proposed rescue spacecraft manned or otherwise, so that flight paths are near rendezvous per-planning intention..__Note this method of repair in now obsolete, as the shuttle orbiter has been termed by the space agency, at least overtly by news sources, to be a retired vehicle.. Best attempt, if you have comments or criticisms here, then please voice them.Thank you

    Missed notes.New types of spacecraft, if any exterior damage is noticed to air-frame pressure hull, that a possible same natured scenario could be constructed, say for a newer industry craft, real or proposed and additionally applicable to other forms of updated space planes.

  4. EXTRA NOTATION ON SPACE-FRAME PRESSURE AERO-FRAME REPAIRS BASED IN EVOLUTION OF PRODUCTS:The nature of Earth to near space orbital package payloads deliveries, because of budget constraints having those companies stay alive financially, may be based in auto-self delivery to orbit systems, or modified versions of advanced space planes.

    For an example, but only as a product in demonstration, in the EU there is an automated version of a space plane being developed now.However this product only in the prototype stage is directed from ground based stations along with guidance from take-off to orbit, via robotic self software.

    If for some reason there is either damage or impact with some foreign object in space, and that return payload is deemed exceedingly valuable, this repair job may enter a new real of thermal protection and technology.

    On the newer proposed space planes, they may utilize both an improve materials composition of the materials that makes up the exterior skin of the TPL. This media factor may involve a capillary flow design of cooling or heating, to where either a gas or liquid flows through tiny tubes, just below the exterior skin of this aircraft.

    Damage to such a construction via EVA to get at the problem might entail, a new type of ready to install patch, that only requires that the exterior surface is wiped with a cloth, to absorb this coolant, then a special self curing patch applied to the outer skin of this vehicle.*It may be possible that the cooling of heating liquid could be rerouted, till the repair is made?

    Links for the physics of bird strikes, to begin with.Please search for more info. via your endeavors, **Keep in mind that this would be an interior pumped temperature change to the from inner to outer regime of the space ship/plane inner-space, so knowing what your panel read or telemetried real-time data would be, so repairs could be effected, is of paramount importants?

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1000936114000892 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1000936114000892Thnx

  5. With all of the "smart people" at MIT it looks like they could have figured out how to put PIP with this video so we could see the slides she is showing to the students. For MIT PIP is an acronym for picture in picture. Here's a better easier solution. Instead of keeping a close frame on the speakers upper body pull out the zoom so we could see the projection screen.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *